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Fringe political parties.

January 25, 2010

As my regular readers will know, I have been having election dilemmas. Yes I know the election is not until May, but am a geek.

As the two main parties unlikely to get my vote, am looking at smaller parties. In interest of fair hearings, I went on to the UKIP website. Well, I actually went on to see whether they were serious about their ludicrous ideas about burkas. What I found was a gem. A breathtakingly hilarious forum, which has clearly shown me the problem with fringe parties. I beg you to take a look. Get yourself a cuppa, a bar of chocolate, and get ready to be astounded….

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/forum.php

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10 comments

  1. I read a letter recently from the (now departed founder of UKIP), bemoaning the fact that he had set UKIP as a vote against the EU, but its now been hijacked by the loony element, effectively becoming an acceptable alternative for xenophobes and racists who find it socially unacceptable to vote BNP.

    I think he hit the nail right on the head. They get madder every day.


    • They are soppy as a box of frogs, but reading definitely fun..LOVE IT! Special award for Baron Von Luslow!


  2. As the owner of the forum I would just like to clarify that it is not a ‘UKIP Forum’ it is a general political forum, with plenty of members from the smaller parties. Mock them all you like, but unless we can encourage some competence from these smaller entities we will be left with gutless principle-lite career politicians running the country forever, as we slip further into an authoritarian nanny state.

    Whether UKIP is still a ‘fringe’ party is debatable, since they beat both Labour and the Liberal Democrats in the last major national election. 43% of the public, when given a free vote under a PR system, voted for parties other than the big three last year.

    For the record I was a Libertas candidate in the last EU elections, and strongly disagree with UKIP’s Burka ban policy.


    • I’ve stopped mocking now. You may not have intended it, but that forum is basically a place for racists to debate with each other, so they can pretend their views are informed. THe openly hostile, racist, violently mysogynistic posts on that forum, I am assuming, would make it a fairly unwelcoming place for anyone who wasn’t racist. The jibes about violence against women, the disgusting racist rants-are not an excercise in free speech.
      While you may feel that there is a difference between UKIP and the BNP- I am finding it v difficult to see what that difference is. If you policies are racist and sexist, and certainly there is no argument which stands which justifies the burka idea. And then if the politicians appearing on television are also expressing ill informed racist views. Then the parties supporters, in the main, are expressing the same views- then to the outsider- the difference is not clear enough.

      Yesterday I was harmlessly mocking, and thinking that the forum was amusing. I suppose it still is. But actually, its quite frightening that people still think like that. It brings up more important issues than whether a woman should be allowed to wear an item of clothing to express their religion.


      • I have argued the same thing – that this ridiculous Burka ban policy is not only ill-thought out but also closes the gap between UKIP and the BNP. Certainly it will have a very negative impact on the significant libertarian wing of UKIP. It’s a real shame because Britain needs a centre ground libertarian party that will act as a proper opposition. UKIP is unfortunately heading the other way.

        I do think that you are far too willing to dish out the word ‘racist’ however. That’s a very serious accusation to fling at someone and can costs people their jobs and friends all too easily. We take racism very seriously on the forum with a zero tolerance policy. Hence I doubt very much that you have actually seen *any* real racism on the forum. If you have, please use the complaints procedure – that is what is is there for.


      • Am really sorry- but have you actually read that forum?

        It is not chucking the term ‘racist’ about- its an accurate description of at least 80percent of the views on there. It is very important that places like that forum exist though, so that when people feel somehow compelled by the sanitised arguments they see on television, they have somewhere to look and see what the real views of a party are.

        I know you see a difference between UKIP and BNP- I don’t, and apparently the members on there, feel that more moderate members, are actually the problem with UKIP. I tend to agree they have a point, the more moderate members, certainly aren’t those who are being given front line media exposure, and it certainly isn’t the moderate aspect of the party, that is being played up.

        Unfortunately, I think this is a gamble which will not pay off for UKIP. This policy is an attempt to appeal to the lowest possible common denominator. And I think it will backfire.

        I would say that absolutely UKIP are a fringe party, like the BNP- and quite frankly- people see that, and it will be reflected in the next election.

        But describing the views expressed, overall in that forum as racist- is nothing but a statement of fact. THe fact that the people in there find it offensive to be called a racist, when they so openly despise people of other races, is one of lifes conundrums.

        Places like that forum exist only to allow people who wallow in their own ignorance- to pretend that the reason they are marginalised, is other races, and not the fact that they have managed to make it through a lifetime in a country, with nothing to show but ignorance, paranoia, and bigotry.

        Its just a shame they have to make that forum, and this country, a worse place- by blaming others for that marginalisation. By being openly hostile to others, they manage to maintain a little place where they can validate each others ignorance- and never have to face up to the fact that the reason they have to hide in forums like that, is that to wider society, their ignorance is abhorrent. There are pubs locally that operate under the same principle. Somewhat ironic that those people who the rest of a civilised society finds abhorrent, feel that the traits that make them abhorrent, their zenophobia, paranoia, and hatred, are those that define englishness.

        Thank you though, I have been having election dilemmas, and this brief investigation into UKIP- has actually enlightened me about a whole section of fringe parties.


  3. Anthony, there is plenty of racism on your forum, just recently the Haiti earthquake provoked a lot of lazy, nasty racism about blacks for example. Even if it is not explicit, there is a definite undercurrent or racism, homophobia and misogyny that runs through your forum and Lisa is absolutely right about that. No one complains about it because that would be too horribly “peecee” and one doesn’t want to be accused of trying to suppress “free speech”.


    • And when racists are arguing that it is insensitive, that they be called a racist=that is, by definition, PC gone mad.


  4. Of course I have read the forum – I am one of the moderators. I think that you are simply seeing what you expect to see though; and that is racism. To say that 80% of people on there are racist is just simply not true. There are some very normal, intelligent and eloquent members. I should know – I have been running the place since 2004. Of course there are some genuine racists, but they are mostly confined to the BNP and we give them a short leash. Anyone making racist statements is automatically banned for life, so I find it hard to believe that you can have seen anything approaching outright racism.

    I have honestly seen very little in the way of racism from UKIP members or senior party members in the past. On the other hand, I find the rampant homophobia of some members constantly shocking in this day and age.

    I think that perhaps you are conflating other issues under the banner of ‘racism’ including criticism of Islam. We don’t regard that as any different to criticism of any other religion, including Christianity; it’s entirely fair game.

    I would urge some caution on making sweeping judgements though. Party members do not represent a party. On forums like ours, you will always notice the more vocal ones, and we occasionally have people falsely claiming to be in a party in order to discredit it. The only genuine measure of a party is its leadership and their policies.


    • Anthony- go read it again. Seriously. Maybe you are desensitised to it, because you frequent that forum, but the level of casual racism, and mysogyny in that forum is unbelievable. I am stunned at the tone of those posts. And no offence- if you can’t see that, then that’s your look out. I’ll leave the link to the forum up, people can make up their own minds. In the meantime- you should probably have discussions about how to tackle racism on the forum, and disputes about personal members, over there, so have deleted most of that.

      And what you would constitute as ‘criticism of Islam’ I would class as rampant, wilful, uninformed, bigotry, and racism- just because it is dressed up by people pretending they have gone to the bother of informing themselves- its the same uninformed racism, just occasionally presented in articulate fashion. Lord bloody save me from racists quoting Islam at me! And if one is to go off the policies, then this is one of those policies, and a clearer one with a more blatant Islamaphobic mysogynistic agenda, I could not devise if I tried.



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